User talk:VDO

HoloNet 209 Archives 

'Greetings,, welcome to HoloNet channel 209. Don't forget to sign your name ( ~ ). Thanks!'

Linking
I'm new to the fanon wiki community, and I have read all the rules, but I wasn't aware I was breaking any rules when I was working on a battle page and was unable to complete it. If I'm temporarily unable to complete an article on a given day, how should I tell the moderators?

Regards, Don113 December 11, 2007.

Voting
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip. -- Zelda Death 08:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

RE: Halo Fanon
Dear SnC ViC,

Hey there. With that comment, I did not mean to offend the SWF administration.

However, I would like to point to the otherwise on Halo Fanon, that we *do* have non-Halo fictions on Halo Fanon under user namespaces. Just recently, Sgt.Johnson wrote a Rainbow Six fanon that's under his usernamespace on Halo Fanon, and I myself have a F.E.A.R fanon, a Starcraft fanon, and a Rainbow Six RPG under my own user namespace on Halo Fanon. If you'd like, I could grad the links. =]

See y'later. Didja get COD-4 yet?

Regards,

RelentlessRecusant 'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 15:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Addendum: Furthermore, I did not mean to perpetrate myself as more "righteous" than the SWF administration, nor set up HFW as more superior than SWFW. My honest intent in that statement was to compare the policies of HF and SWF; that we permit non-related fictions on our site on the user namespace, which was the premise of my argument. Cheers, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 17:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright, then. Sounds good. =] Rawr -- you need to get COD4. The multiplayer's epic; better than H3 if I may say away from Halopedia, where I would get roasted for BBQ saying that any sort of game's better than H3 in any respect. ^^ Regards, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 00:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

RE:Return
I intend on getting my articles to featured status by the end of the year, in particular Aurelius Tempest and the War for the Home Planet. --  Riffsyphon  1024 22:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

RE:Template:Force power
Hehe, I don't know where the Xmas came from. I like the colours separaely but together... not so much. Anyway, I like the system for colours you made up. It makes MUCH more sense. - A lwa's creations  Papa Legba  Request passage 18:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Templates
Looks good, but if you can log onto AIM I've got a suggestion. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  20:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Bendu and Lettow
I found them. They weren't that far down the list in the page history. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  20:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Dialogue Problem
Hi. On the article Kit Fisto, I was trying to make the following dialogue directly under the section "Calvin to Valor"

In case you didn't notice, the dialogue makes little, if any, sense at all, but the text does. Could you please either tell me the error, or edit the text so that it works? Thank you. --Darth Darth 03:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Bored...
I'm bored at the moment, so do you want me to help with the template moving? Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 08:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


 * No... I meant do you want me to help you with moving the templates? Those templates about someone's universe... You know. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 08:16, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I went through the all the ones in the category you showed me. I think I got all the ones in there. Oh, and sorry about not puttinbg some categories on. I don't know many of them, and how you remember them... I have no idea. Anyway, I'm still bored, so is there anything else I can do? Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 08:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, no problem about helping. I felt looking doing something here. As I've said before, it's been a long time... Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 08:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll get to it. And 80 isn't that big, compared to the amount of articles here... Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 08:54, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, they're all gone. I'm still bored, but I presume you have nothing left for me to do. If you do, let me know. Oh, and it was my pleasure to help. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Anytime. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, sure. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, they are all done. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:26, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually never mind... Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

This is wierd... Can you check that the articles have the correct category (Category:Articles by Relentless Recusant)? Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

He used two templates for nearly the same thing... Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Did you want me to add Category:Articles by RelentlessRecusant to them as well as removing the template? Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:35, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Alright then. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll do that then. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:40, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, they are all done. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 10:20, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, so've I. Ok, see ya later. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 10:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Deletion
Yeah, that's cool. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  15:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Categories
I did it again... - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  20:13, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, I don't know if there's an established precedent for this or not, but when an FFA earns its FA status back once again does it get featured on the main page or is it simply just to get the status back? - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  20:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I like both of the icons there. It makes a clear distinction between GAs and FAs. Besides, by removing the era icon, it's almost like saying now that it's an FA it's no longer a GA, whereas it's always both. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  21:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I did. - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]]  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  21:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

SWM: Fanon
Sorry for interrupting you. I wish to ask you a question: Well, first off, if I recall I have already asked this ages ago, but I will ask again, however. Anyway, I wish to know if I can turn a couple of your characters into Star Wars Miniatures? Let me know.

Thanks, Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 08:39, 30 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, what are your well known characters? Or, if you wish, you can check out the article yourself. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 08:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, if it has strong connections to the Imperials than yes. If not, put it in the faction it has the strongest connections to and give it Affinty (Whatever other faction). Affinity is only neccesary if they have something else they have strong connections to, e.g. Garm bel Iblis would be New Republic with Affinity (Rebel). Also, you might want to look at this. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 08:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I added them and I'll work on them later. What about your flagship character? Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Would he fit under New Republic? Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, just one more question about him then. Was he affiliated with Republic or the Rebels? Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:18, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, then. Darth Mavoc | My Talk Page | My Contributions 09:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Own Wiki
Sounds good, would it be easy to transfer all articles across? Aeods 08:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I'd rather the articles stay here as well, so I'd be fine putting in the work copying them across. I've made the request on the Wiki-Request, so I'll let everyone on the Forum know. Here's the link if you want it: http://requests.wikia.com/index.php?title=Rebels&action=purge Aeods 08:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * How do you vote? Aeods 09:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, removed my vote. How do you add a link? I don't seem to be able to edit the page... Aeods 09:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Would you happen to know how to copy templates across? For instance, a Jedi infobox, or a quote, or anything like that, doesn't show up on the Rebels Wiki. Is it possible to copy them across? Aeods 03:18, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

UOTM
If someone isn't going to be the UOTM for the month we enter, let's make sure that we keep their nomination on the nominations page because I didn't even remember JM being nominated for the award. Therefore, Solus should be put back on the nominations page because, really, JM should have been the winner of the November voting. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  20:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, to already have a UOTM for January makes little sense to me. FAs have a que because there are just so many of them and are not done on a month by month basis. - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  21:05, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Back to normal as in what we've been doing or what I suggested? - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  21:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I missed the other thing you said. - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  21:54, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Nixon wasn't involved with the Watergate scandal, he just knew about it and never said anything. -- Wing, the Philosopher  ( msg )
 * Nope. He didn't order it and it was not being done on his behalf. He simply didn't want anyone to know he knew about it, he thought if he knew before it happened like he did, Americans would think he was behind it. But I idolize Nixon for the good he did in the post-Vietnam era. -- Wing, the Philosopher  [[Image:Tristram army.jpg|20px]] ( msg )

Mini- collaboration
I was thinking, its probably going to be a pretty small world in the Inquisitorius, and Inquisitors are going to run into each other alot. Perhaps Lukas could meet, or cooperate with Si'va Morrer/Chanay/Otto Ciel on a small mission or something, to expand any of their stories. I recognise that they all fit in with your particular fanon story, and if you don't want to do it then it doesnt matter.
 * Balu wouldn't work as he died before Shimra began training, so Chanay it is. I was thinking just a simple, small mission (like a Jedi Academy/Outcast mission), with no real concequences on any major story (unless that would suit you). No idea about any details yet, and don't have much time at the immediate moment, but i'll give it a think when i do. If you have any ideas, storylines you scrapped or never finished maybe, we could build on those.

RE: Problem Report
I was just wondering if anything could be done about the unregistered user, or if his tampering was what resulted in my article losing its status. Kyp Fisto 05:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Article
Remember to look it over tonight and get back to me as I'm going to bed now. :) --  Riffsyphon  1024 06:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

GA

 * Hey, I was wondering if you could find time sometime to look over Ryluk Shouja and tell me what I would need to make it a GA? I've looked over the requirements, and it looks ok by me, but I was just wondering if you had any pointers.--Ryluk Shouja(The Mukhabarat 09:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks!--Ryluk Shouja(The Mukhabarat 07:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Email
Hey Vic, check your email. --Jack Phoenix (Contact) 22:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Holy!

 * Vic, there is 40 cm of snow over here! That means no school!TroybAllSpark Quest contribs[[Image:MovieBlack.JPG|10px]] 12:15, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Delete
Can you delete the page User:RyukShouja/Weapontemp2 for me? I've used it for what I need, and besides, the username is misspelled...=P Thanks!--Ryluk Shouja(The Mukhabarat 09:40, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

RE: Articles
Dear Squishy Vic,

Thanks much! I will be getting to that soon. =]

Cheers,

RelentlessRecusant 'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 17:28, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Is there a list of the commonly used categories? Not quite sure what to categorize some of my articles, and guessing probably'll lead to redlinks. ^^ Cheers, RelentlessRecusant  'o the Halopedia Team http://images.wikia.com/rainbowsix/images/7/73/GDI2.jpg TALK • MESSAGE 17:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Commander Amolsch
Why did you warn Commander Amolsch to categorize his articles and threaten a ban if he did not when all of his articles were already categorized? I checked his contributions and looked at all of the articles, and they've all been categorized for months. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  22:01, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Alrighty. - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  21:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Nominate mine please!!!
Nominate my article Vic. I have prepared it for nomination and I expect your words. If it is not yet ready then tell me. George Skywalker 19:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Voting
Yeah, I figured it was only a matter of time. Very well. Dexington 13:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I don't think Dex's comments are any less constructive than "per above". - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  13:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Copies
Thanks for the quick response. No hard feelings, it just seems User:Ramiro Rivarez copied a bunch of our articles here for some reason. Not sure why. Don't know who he is, either.

This is what I've found (from Rivarez):
 * Battle of Kappa (Battle of Kappa)
 * Com-Cor (Com-Cor)
 * Giles Vermillion (Giles Vermillion
 * New Republic Intelligence (New Republic Inteligence) (NRI is a common element of the NR, but this article is a carbon copy of ours... straight down to the unique SW1-only characters. The one here is a slightly older version though).
 * Paul Nighman (Paul Nighman)
 * CR90_Corvette (CR90 Corvette)

Thanks. I see that Rivarez was banned at one point, I guess he was a trouble maker of sorts :) I have to go out for a bit, but if I find more from Rivarez, I'll let you know. Thanks again. --18:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Many apoligies
Sorry,I have been away for many months from here and I was not aware of new additions to the rules. I have changed the errors that I have made. Grievous797

Stub
Thanks for lettin me know. -Eggzavier 16:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Awards
A thought: if we're going to have the host select at least three articles for each category, and because the host will need to decide what categories need to be used, want me to suggest in the consensus thread that we co-host it? That way, we don't just have one opinion of what should be nominated flat out. Let me know. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  19:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

FFA?
I recently found that Union of Succat Socialist Republics, a Featured Article, was deleted in July by CBT for being "Junk/vandalism", even though it wasn't. It seems the reason it was actually deleted was because the author was banned for vandalism and PAs, which really doesn't constitute the deletion of a Featured Article. Please take a look at it and let me know if you think it should be an FFA or not. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  00:00, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Is that policy actually on record, because deleting an FA is rediculous? - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  00:09, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't Trask Ulgo = Wing, therefore meaning that the user technically isn't banned? - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  00:12, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The Cabal made some weird decisions in the early-middle part of this past year, but deleting an FA because someone was a nuisance on IRC? Lol, but that one takes the cake. - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  00:15, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I never said it was out of the ordinary. I'm simply saying that it doesn't make sense. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  02:23, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * To add on to that, if someone is going to delete a Featured Article because the user who wrote it was banned, then there should be either a) an official record of the discussion where it was decided to do it and a more appropriate deletion summary than "Junk/vandalism". Before I restored that, I saw that it said "Junk/vandalism" and, after looking at it, I knew it wasn't junk or vandalism. I then remembered that he was banned, and looked for an official account of the decision. There was none. Just something to think about in the future. - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  02:39, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

That's all I ask. Also, if you were to pick a young actor for Kavari in my novel, who would it be? - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  22:48, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for telling me. Also, about the guy for Kavari, while he does look the part do you have anyone younger in mind? I like telling people actor names for characters, and in my novel he'd only be in his twenties. - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  01:22, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll go with Columbus Short. The one other guy, Alexander, looks like Short ten years later, and then Clayton looks like Alexander twenty years later or so. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  02:16, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like we have a winner then. - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  02:19, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Banned?
Why did you ban Commander Amolsch? I checked his articles and they seem fairly well categoried to me. Also, if he's banned, then you should tell him on his userpage.  Michaeldsuarez  ( Activate Holocron ) 02:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oops. Sorry.  Michaeldsuarez [[Image:Sabersmilygreend.jpg|20px]] ( Activate Holocron ) 02:48, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Categorizing
Oh jeez! I totally forgot. That and I also had to leave (class ended), but thanks for reminding me!--Nightmare975 23:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Vic, total brain fart on my part there. Arden Shan is now categorized. Canuckman55 20:20, 23 December 2007 (UTC)Canuckman55

RE^2: Ryluk's page
I've expanded everything to the best of my knowledge (I still have to read Newfound Heir by Tesh to have a complete knowledge of my character...ok, that sounds weird), but other than that, it should be pretty stable. What do you think?--Ryluk Shouja(The Mukhabarat 21:14, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem. It's not like it's my life depends on the reviewing of this article, just when you have time.  Thanks again!--Ryluk Shouja(The Mukhabarat 10:31, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Re:You work
Thanks for letting me know. I'm not great with categories. 19:56, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Blocked?
Vic, one second I'm editing, next thing I know, someone named CatherineMunro has blocked my IP for open proxy used by Assaulthead. If you could, could you unblock me please? My IP is 10.10.20.144. Thank you. --Nightmare975 00:06, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure of you did anything or not, but the block disappeared, at least, I hope it did. Thanks if it was you.--Nightmare975 00:14, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay then, at least it all got cleared out.--Nightmare975 05:50, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Ryluk
Thanks for the advice, I'm working on it. I just have one question, though. What exactly is a Legacy section? I skimmed a couple of FA legacy sections, and from what I gathered it's kind of a "what happened after he/she died" section. Am I right, or so completely far off that I must have had my eyes closed when I read that? Oh, and do the authors nominate their own articles for GA? Just wondering.--Ryluk Shouja(The Mukhabarat 16:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks about the move
I wasn't sure on where to put the actual narrative of the story went. Thanks once again.--Nightmare975 16:36, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Sure
Sure. This is my last edit to this wiki.&mdash; Darthtyler http://images.wikia.com/swfanon/images/1/18/Scuba_Diver.gif Talk 19:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Postmortem/Legacy
So an article should have both. That works. Now, where do they get put? Postmortem is under Biography, I think, but is Legacy in its own section or still under biography? And do you nominate your own articles for GA, or do they get nominated by someone else?--Ryluk Shouja(The Mukhabarat 18:14, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Can I ask why Jin-Ho Jade was deleted?

Alright thanks Vic

Can you also restore Jaxis Telgar so that I can categorize it?

Basically, purge and delete all images I ever uploaded until today. Or do you need me to put a delete template on all of them? Xwing327 22:11, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I am going to redo it when I get the chance. Xwing327 22:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again
Ugh, I was rushed, blah blah blah (mindless excuses), thanks again. Merry Christmas.--Nightmare975 23:36, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

To-do list
Please note on your to-do list that Gorgutz cannot vote in anything for three months, as he created a sockpuppet called Choaslord despite the ban that you gave him three days ago. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  23:38, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Your welcome, and Merry Christmas to you as well. - President Brandon Rhea [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  19:13, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
Ok, the title is kinda self-explanatory. I just wanted to with you a Merry Christmas and thank you for all your helpful suggestions! --Ryluk Shouja(The Mukhabarat 07:58, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Tesh's Article
Hey! I was wondering if you could read through Tesh's article, or at least part of it because it is rather long, and tell me what I'm missing. I've gone through and checked grammar and spelling twice and was just wondering what I've missed. I know I need a more pics, but I have no resources whatsoever. Well, I do have Ryluk, but he's too busy. Thanks. --  Tesh  162  19:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about not deleting those images, I'll tell ya next time. Xwing327 06:47, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Userboxes
Didn't know that. Fixed! -- Zelda Death 09:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Can use the image in my Jarec Devean article?

Apologies
My apologies. I'm not used to ever having to do that as I'm from Halofanon. I'll try not to make the same mistake twice;) --| Halofanons Kebath 'Holoree "Data Access"

Re:Offline
Thanks for letting me know. By the way, nominating yourself for Best Overall Character? For shame! - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom)   (Accomplishments)  21:31, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Re:Policies
Having revised the article in question, I was wondering if I could ask your opinion and also if you could tell me how to get the succession boxes to work - on the page for the 'start' template I just see a little grey cube. (Lionheart 08:05, 3 January 2008 (UTC))

What is worn with my Blackbriar Program artical? I put a "working on it" thing up and I am currently working on expanding and improving it. I don't see how my artical is against rules. Insted of just deleating my creation could you tell me what is worng with it first? I am sure I'm following all the rules, if my artical dose go against rules in some way please tell me. Thanks. User:Darth Trickster 8:25 January 4, 2008

There is that what you were talking about? I'm pretty sure I have it categorized right but if I did anything wrong feel free to imform me please. User:Darth Trickster 8:34 January 4, 2008