User talk:Atarumaster88

Archives

 * Archive 1
 * Archive 2
 * Archive 3
 * Archive 4

To maintain at least some form of order, all posts will be responded to on this page. Do not look for a response on your page.

Poll
What do you think of the Force Exile series? 5 stars! It's pretty good Meh. Mindless drivel. Its teh suckz. I wants to hax it off da interwebz. What are you talking about again?
 * See Force Exile I: Fugitive, Force Exile II, and Force Exile III: Liberator for more information.

DLs
Yes, I do agree with MPK, as he said more people are needed. Perhaps one more person won't suffice! We might need two. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom) (Record) 23:38, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure, if you want. I already know that it most likely won't make the cut, but knowing what to fix should I ever get around to it would be nice. Good to have you aboard, though I've been incredibly inactive anyway, so I don't know if that really counts as a welcome. I know you're gonna make it. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  14:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  15:00, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

MAJORSPOILERS
Every single one of my Featured Articles has MAJORSPOILERS. I figured I'd let you know that since you're reviewing articles. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom) (Record) 15:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC) I'm fairly certain I told you that....or at the very least hinted to it. - President Brandon Rhea  (Pressroom) (Record) 15:39, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you; I suspected as much anyway. You owe me, Rhea. My eyes are *bleeding*. Bleeding! I didn't realize you were in the middle of re-evaluating all of your FAs when I agreed to this. The indignities, indeed. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 15:35, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Be very careful reading Bendu Order. - President Brandon Rhea  [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom) (Record) 17:52, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Mr. Rhea, when I first began reading and reviewing your work, it was a whim, and then later on as a favor and for enjoyment. As it is apparent that I will soon be handling things in a more official capacity, the luxury of sparing something a thorough read solely on MAJORSPOILERS is, for me, no longer something I can afford. As I wish to be at my absolute razor-sharp best and fair in reviewing all the Featured Articles, I will be reading each article with equal thoroughness. I say this not to encourage you to do the same thing or push my viewpoint, but to simply state the new dynamic. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 17:56, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay then. I was just saying this because one of your conditions for being a Decreton Lord was to have the right to abstain from reading and voting based on, among other things, MAJORSPOILERS. You had not made it known before then that you were going to be changing this, especially when you thanked me just a few hours ago for a warning. - President Brandon Rhea  [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] (Pressroom) (Record) 18:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Perfectly understandable. The decision was only made less than an hour ago, at any rate, though I may still skip some articles for the purposes of too many MAJORSPOILERs. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 18:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably for the best. Also, I haven't read what you said about the Bendu Order on your page yet, but when I do I may respond if I feel the need to. Also, can you come onto IRC? - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 18:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * As you wish. I didn't want to be overly presumptuous and post my reviews on the DL forum until officially confirmed for the position; just trying to get a head start on the work. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 18:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's fine. It works on your page or on the article talk pages. Also, you may have seen the message before I edited the IRC thing in, but can you come onto IRC? - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 18:18, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Heroes
You might like the first two quotes on this page. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 15:35, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 16:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Just so you know, that Prophecies of The Skywalker page is outdated. I assure you, no member of the Bac family will EVER be the Vice-President of the United States. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 16:53, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I hope so, Commander, for your sake. I caught a whiff of something on that page, one I've smelled before, and I don't like it. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 16:54, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Edit summaries
It'd be nice if you kept these constant sarcastic comments in edit summaries to yourself. I don't care if you do it to me, as annoying as it may be considering I pointed out a fair few spelling errors in your article before you nominated it for GA, but not everyone who sees you doing that to their article is going to know it's sarcastic. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 23:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC) Thank you. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 00:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected; my sincere apologies. I let my distaste carry itself over in my copyediting and I assure you it won't happen again, to you or anyone else. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 23:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Dude
Don't worry about it. I know it was in jest, and I know I have no clue about lightsaber combat. But that aside, the reason it sucks is because I wrote it and thought it was good back then, and then in recent months realized a lot of my stuff needed rewriting. The only article I was actually able to/have been able to rewrite is Narod, and the others I have not even gotten around to. I began on Roviik, but have yet to finish... someday. Anyway don't worry about it, I know they were in jest, and took no offense. --<font color="#9F05">Victor <font color="#AA00">(talk) 02:34, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * With that said, can you please review Narod Antrell next? I know it may throw you off your list, but if you can, please do so ASAP. That article is my top priority always. --<font color="#9F05">Victor <font color="#AA00">(talk) 02:46, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

He's going to do Ussej Padric Bac III next. I asked him first! - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 02:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Epic lulz. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 02:57, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Vic, Brandon, both of your respective articles have reached the Desk of Atarumaster88 and have been duly reviewed. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 17:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Irony
"another reviwe"

- You

Should I take you to task on this or just leave it alone? - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 17:08, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering how I essentially had to review that article twice, a most unpleasant experience, due to a browser hiccup that trashed all my work, I would suggest the latter. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 17:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks much. If you have a moment, could you join the IRC please? [[Image:Darthtomsig.png|163px]] iChat What I've done 13:55, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Liberator Cover
is the first draft of the cover, I now have a psd of it so if you need any changes let me know.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink 02:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, looks good so far. Just a few small changes, if you don't mind. The lettering of "Liberator" should be a little smaller and the same color as the other novel covers. . If at all possible, minimize the green haze between the lower title block and the characters. Also, I'd like as much of Doriana's clothing and such as possible to remain, so that the scene with the Twi'lek and scouttrooper is completely isolated from the rest of the background by the three characters flanking it. You may need to move his head to accommodate that. The background greenish haze should try and incorporate some more of the variety of colors in the Nebula image, especially the yellows, to keep it from being too green. This is entirely my fault for changing the camera angles, but I'll have to find something to fill up that space in between the Jedi front and center and the girl. You could move the girl closer to the Jedi to fill that gap, but if you come up with a better solution, by all means use it. Other than those admittedly minor things, it looks great. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 04:16, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Check it out again, uploaded to the same name.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 05:07, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I like it. Like it a lot. :-) Great job, Darth Nyne. I have but one tiny fix. Right behind Doriana's ear, there's a little bit of the blue background that was in the original image; it doesn't quite seem to fit there. Could you remove that? Thanks. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 13:43, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * There you are, and I hope it's good, whenever you're ready to start on the next one just start sendin me some details.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 18:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Awesome! As an afterthought, would it be possible to shrink the lettering down a little on the "Force Exile" and "Liberator" lines? A quick comparison with previous covers shows that they're a little bigger. (See my userpage). At any rate, it looks wonderful over all and I will get the details for the Yanibar Tales cover to you as soon as I figure out what I want.  Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 18:27, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That should cover it, let me know what you think.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 05:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Bullseye on the bottom line. The "Force Exile" still looks a little hard to see; can you just darken that bit? Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 13:23, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * there you are, darker and stands out more.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink[[Image:sithempire2.png|30px]] 20:16, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

RE: Fair warning
Okay, thank you. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  20:37, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, I'm sorry, it's fixed now. Thanks. BTW, you haven't done all of my articles, I don't see Tulak there. He's likely to get torn apart. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  22:17, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Good point. I have yet to work on most of the characters yet, but I will let you know when I get to him. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 22:18, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem - I'd dread doing the characters, too. On the image thing, any of my images you see here or on my Photobucket account you are 100% allowed to use, though for the Photobucket ones, when you pick one, I'll have to tell you the source, as I can't put them down there. Happy image hunting! - Solus (Bird of Prey)  01:09, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 02:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

BtS
Hey man, I just created Category: Behind the scenes for a page of mine, and just messaging you so you may use it, too, on your own BtS pages. See you around. --<font color="#9F05">Victor <font color="#AA00">(talk) 02:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 02:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

FE Series
Lol, sure. I'll get right on it. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  22:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC) You're now officially one of us. I don't know whether I should congratulate you or not, Ataru. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 22:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 'Preciate it. I'm even going back and double-checking the pics. ;-) Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 22:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ha, well everything looks in order. I'll vote for it for GA, but if you want it FA'ed, you'll have to add more links, and I would need you to add a BtS also, except the whole thing is a BtS...kinda. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  22:36, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Before any possible FAN process is complete, the links will no longer be a problem. Ditto with a BtS section. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 22:41, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

RE: SWF:FAN

 * LOL. First, the first "Featured Article" should be "Good Article" and secondly, that's outdated, since, a short while back, Brandon and I agreed to remove the auto-nom process and you may nominate Force Exile series whenever you're ready. --<font color="#9F05">Victor <font color="#AA00">(talk) 03:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Correction: Just nominate it whenever you're ready. --<font color="#9F05">Victor <font color="#AA00">(talk) 03:50, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the on a diplomatic mission  to Alderaan.  Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 04:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Carry on. --<font color="#9F05">Victor <font color="#AA00">(talk) 04:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Troyb's IRC ban
Regarding Troyb's ban from the Wookiee IRC, it's possible it wasn't actually him because someone did the same thing to him on the Halopedia IRC. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 00:30, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have investigated the matter and found the true culprit. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 00:31, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Regarding FA lengths
Hey Ataru, since you’re going to be a Decreton Lord by the end of the day, I have a question for you. What are your opinions on how long a Featured Article should be? More specifically, if the article is from a work of fan fiction and the author of the article does not write anything in the article other than what can be sourced from that work of fiction, what do you think the length should be? I have a pretty good idea of what your opinion would be considering the sometimes-short length of some Featured Articles on Wookieepedia, but I would like to know what you think. Thanks in advance. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 03:16, 12 July 2008 (UTC) Good answer. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 04:39, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Brandon, if a Featured Article is written solely from a work of fan-fiction, then it would depend on the amount of material written in the fan-fiction about the character, to some extent. By Wookieepedia standards, this could be a very short amount, but we know this is a different place. The issue would be FAR 3.3, which states that every encyclopediac angle must be covered; therefore, things like missing a backstory and not having a sizable BTS/P&T would not be acceptable by SWF standards. That said, I realistically could not see a character article from a fan-fiction under 20 KB of content here; I don't think that would suffice to cover all angles, even with the "unfinished storyline" concept. Since, unlike Wookieepedia, where canonicity, neutrality, accuracy, and proper writing are the chief benchmarks, Star Wars Fanon depends more on the neutrality, proper writing, depth, and imagination of the work, a larger benchmark for length should, IMHO, be expected so as to prevent half-baked ideas and uninteresting, unattractive articles from being featured on the Main Page for a week at a time and presented as the top quality articles of the website. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 04:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Decreton Lords
Welcome to the team, Ataru! - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 05:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 07:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Behind the scenes
Since you're big on Behind the scenes sections, could you take a look at what's been said on the nomination for Battle of Cul-Huq (Cruentusian War) at SWF:FAN? You could probably explain it better than I could. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 21:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC) Thanks! - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 21:32, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sure. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 21:31, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In another BtS related matter, I just wrote an extensive BtS for Bendu Order. Your feedback on it would be appreciated. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 04:35, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Much better in terms of detail; the development was needed. I wouldn't use so many quotes in the parody section, but since they're so priceless, it's fine. I don't think you can change some of those without losing the meaning. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 17:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they would be hard to take out. Talking about how the Bendu are supposedly against Islam just doesn't have the same effect of OMG PEWPEWPEW. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 17:12, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I also just added two new sections to it: Non-canon appearances and Reception. That should be enough, I think. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  [[Image:Presidentialseal.gif|27px]] <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 17:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Reply to questions
Sorry. As for the questions, pay them no mind. Congrats on your victory.  Wing   msg 03:59, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:Review
Thanks for letting me know. - <font color="#1A2BBB">President Brandon Rhea  <font color="#1A2BBB">(Pressroom) <font color="#1A2BBB">(Record) 20:07, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Yanibar Cover
Got the details, give me a little while I've gotta finish up another paid gig, and handle the wifes birthday and I'll be right on it, should get started about middle of this week, and then look towards the weekend for a first draft.  N.Y.N.E. Comlink 06:38, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good; naturally you're free to work at your own pace, and I'll look forward to what you create. ;-)  Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 04:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Knighthood
Chapter 2 of Knighthood is up. Please review at your discretion. &mdash;Victor, Sr. «discussion» 20:34, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
Sorry, CurrentBigThing got to him first. -- Ringleader  MDS   ( Talk ) ( Deeds ) 17:49, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Psh, no problem at all. Just thought I'd let you know since you were online. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 18:02, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. -- Michaeldsuarez [[Image:Sabersmilygreend.jpg|20px]] ( Talk ) ( Deeds ) 20:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

RE: IRC
Oh, no problem at all. I often pop on to find nobody active. I was just bored anyway. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  18:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Information
The information you wanted about Project Cruentus can be found here. Any queries let me know. There's a lot in there, and all the history up until today, but if there's anything more you need please let me know, and I'll see what I can do. -- iChat What I've done 10:14, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Read Your Story
Thanks for the comment on my story! I have several others on TFN, and I'll probably end up copying some of them here as well.

Aurrasingrules101 22:37, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Talk: Kaminoann warrior
Heh, there were two more replies after you left. You'll get a kick out of the last one. Talk:Kaminoan warrior By the time you get this there may be more, but eh. :D - Solus (Bird of Prey)  23:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Looky
Hey, I know you're probably busy and all, but I have completed Roviik Antrell (rewrites and all) and therefore am letting you know it's ready for your review, unlike before. Just thought I'd mention it because a thing or two Solus said in the Third FA review are now irrelevant. Thanks. :) &mdash;Victor, Sr. «discussion» 18:39, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have reviewed said article. Good job with the improvements. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 19:39, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

n00b request
I, DarTah Ravin', made my very first ship article. I've seen your well thought out objections on the Sulaco class battle cruiser and i would appreciate if you would do the same for my article Annihilator(Atlantis) :PS please respond on my talk page if you won't / can't. (the 'bout part)

IRC
Um, when I tried to get on IRC recently and a few hours ago, it said I had to be invited to the #swfanon channel. Why is this? - Solus (Bird of Prey)  19:36, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have no idea. It was like that earlier. My guess is that it was taken over by mischievous Darthipedians who set it to invite only. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 19:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * ...Oh. Nuts. - Solus (Bird of Prey)  19:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * How nice of you to jump to the wrong conclusion again Ataru, I know for a fact that mischievous Darthipedians as well as regular Darthipedians had nothing to do with this.  Madclaw  Shyriiwook! 20:03, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I stand corrected. It was just a guess, at any rate. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 20:07, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Regardless, the IRC is now no longer invite-only. Access it as you will, and spread the word. --  JM  76  Ask   Archives  [[Image:Sabersmilyjm76.jpg|20px]] 20:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, now it's full and won't let me on... :p - Solus (Bird of Prey)  20:21, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I still have op capabilities, but wouldn't know how to revert the damage anyway. &mdash;Victor, Sr. «discussion» 20:44, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Uh, everything's under control, situation normal. It's been handled. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 20:48, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

RE: POV Discussion
I apologize for the late response. Although it is my policy to only respond to stuff on my talk page, I'm sending this to yours to make sure you read it.

"Force powers either generally appear in A) video games, where their "alignments" can be treated as a game mechanic and not necessarily canon, or B) books/sourcebooks, which generally aren't written NPOV."

- The "Big A" Himself


 * 1) This is true enough, but not particularly relevant to the point. Game mechanics are not automatically non-canon, but only become so if contradicted by other canon. For instance, it is a game mechanic that T-65 X-wing starfighters possess deflector shields, but this is supported by canon. On the same note, games may classify force powers by alignment, but this does not automatically make it non-canon.
 * 2) The statement about books and sourcebooks is also true, but as I said, not relevant. No source is non-POV. Every novel, game, movie, et cetera is not told from an encyclopedic viewpoint in the strictest form of the word. This does not invalidate them as sources, nor does it render their statement(s) inaccurate.

It is my contention that in Star Wars canon, the existence of the light and dark sides is a material, established fact, and that including them in an article is no more POV than stating any other material fact, such as the number of Star Destroyers present in a battle.

"For example, Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force, describes the Potentium as heresy at best. That doesn't mean the Potentium is heresy; that means that either a generic historian, or a particular figure (in this case, Tionne Solusar and the Jedi Order) interprets it as such."

- The "Big A" Himself

I haven't read the source you mention, so I can't verify that, but although I assume that is correct, it does not follow that the dark side or light side is a Point of View. It's merely the perspective of a canon character. As I've mentioned before, a character who states a material fact such as fleet numbers is speaking from his point of view, but using him as a source to give fleet numbers in an article would not be POV.

"To say that Force Choke is a dark side power is necessarily POV to me, given that some perspectives don't believe in the dark side."

- The "Big A" Himself

Wait. So perspectives of in-canon characters affect the content of an article? That sounds like POV to me.

To elaborate, Han Solo didn't even believe the Force existed. Ergo, from his perspective, even mentioning the Force is POV by that logic because if a perspective that doesn't believe in the dark side means that it is biased to include the term in an encyclopedia article, then it follows that since there are perspectives that deny the Force's existence, anything that mentions force powers is POV.

My point is that merely because characters in-universe hold a perspective, it doesn't necessarily follow that the perspective is canonically correct. The POV rule is meant to prevent bias, as in portraying events from a skewed/inaccurate manner, such as a war veteran exaggerating his exploits in the field. The dark and light sides are materially and canonically proper, as far as any source that we have can go by. Ergo, it is no more bias than including any other fact within universe.

"To say that Force Choke was often considered a dark side power by the Jedi, etc. is neutral."

- The "Big A" Himself

That is where you jump the gun a bit as far as preventing POV goes: A person don't need to say that a dark side power was considered to be dark-sided by a certain organization every time you mention it. That would just be redundant. It's not POV to say that Force Grip, Force Lightning, Force Drain, or any other such ability is dark-sided. It would be POV if the article said that they were evil. It is a definite fact that Force Grip, for example, draws on the dark side in order to be used (as does Force Lightning and so on). That, by definition, makes it a dark side power.

K, that's all I have to say on that subject. -MPK (MPK's Talk Page)|undefined 00:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC)