Forum:Cleaning up the IRC nonsense

This page is a discussion about how to stop making the Star Wars Fanon IRC channel a load of @#$%ing horseshit. If cursing offends you, then quite frankly I’m not in the mood to care right now, so I’ll just say “sorry” now and you can skip the “I forgive you part” just so we can stick to the main plot here, which is more important than how I gave this a catchy opening while venting some of my own frustration.

Now, what is the main plot? Basically, our IRC channel is ridiculous. We violate virtually every IRC policy on a daily basis and those of us who have Operator powers (for those of you unfamiliar with IRC, Ops are basically the Admins of the channel) tend to abuse (that’s a very generous word for the shit we pull) said powers. This needs to stop. This thread is a detailing of some current problems and the steps we can take to correct it.

Please keep all comments in the discussion areas. - Brandon Rhea (talk) (contribs) 03:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Abuse of IRC rules
As noted above, we constantly disregard our IRC policies. Many users are not treated with respect. There have been a few times when people have come on claiming to be other users, and instead of calmly telling them that we know they are not who they claim to be, we outright flame them for a bit and THEN block them. This violates the civility clause of our IRC policies. We also have a tendency to keep things uncivil between those of us who are active and, while it’s in good fun, it also needs to stop. This basically also violates the Assume good faith clause of our policies.

“Use Op powers sparingly” is one of the policy clauses - lol wtf? What a joke. That’s not followed AT ALL. The last time I was on IRC today, I was kicked out by one of our administrators because I thought the Star Wars Kid video was funny and he didn’t. Needless to say, I’m having the last laugh right now. Kicking is used to get rid of trolls, vandals and other problem users like that. The majority of the people kicked from #swfanon are kicked for shits and giggles. This is an abuse of power and it needs to stop.

There is also constant spamming and flooding. One code, !FLOOB, puts up the word FLOOB about forty-two times. People PING (think of it as the noise and flashy lights on whatever instant messenger you use) each other to death (I had a friend who is dead because of it.....just kidding) if they don’t respond for, oh, thirty seconds. There are so many other instances of spamming that it just needs to stop.

Channel hacking/vandalism
Oh yeah, remember how I said that I was having the last laugh after having been kicked out of the channel? Yeah, that’s a crock of shit. I’m actually not having the last laugh, because I’ve been spending the last two hours dealing with this IRC crap. Do you have any idea what I’m talking about? No, you probably don’t. Why? Because barely anyone uses our IRC channel. Quite frankly, considering the sad and sorry state of our channel, I don’t blame you. So, I’ll tell you the problem.

At around 8:04pm on this chilly Eastern Standard Time night we are having right now, I logged onto #swfanon IRC. But wait - it didn’t take me there! Where did it take me? Why, to #halopedia, the IRC channel of the Halopedia wiki. Naturally I thought I accidentally clicked to go into Halopedia, so I logged out to log back into #swfanon. Low and behold, I was taken back to #halopedia. Apparently, someone who thinks that they are oh so funny (newsflash: YOU’RE NOT) used Op power (not necessarily an actual one of our Ops, but I suppose it could have been) to forward our channel to Halopedia’s channel.

Let me take this opportunity to formally accuse some member of Darthipedia of doing this. I don’t know who it was, but you guys know by now that you’re all numero uno on my suspect list for virtually everything (I know you killed JFK...), so I’m certainly not going to start getting rid of that bias now. If it wasn’t any of you then I apologize, but...I think it was.

Anyway, I went to the main Freenode IRC channel to find to a Freenode staff member to help me. I did find one, and they begin to help me. But wait....I’m not set as a permanent Op in our IRC channel so they can’t help me! I tried to prove it by showing them SWF:IRC which shows who our Ops are (I’m listed there) and I posted a blog directly addressing the staff member in questioning saying that I was, in fact, who I said it was. Unfortunately, no dice, because “Star Wars Fanon does not equal Freenode”, so regardless of the proof that I am who I say I am (aka, not a vandal screwing around like one of you people are), their policies say they can’t help me. So at the time I leave this message, our channel still forwards to Halopedia’s channel.

This isn’t the first time we’ve had a major problem. A few weeks ago, some vandal (also probably from Darthipedia) managed to remove powers from all Operators and close off the entire channel (aka, they blocked access). Wikia was able to fix that a day or two later, but right now, in true incompetent Wikia fashion, none of their staff members have responded to me on #wikia, despite having been trying to get them to do so for the better part of two hours. Way to lead, Wikia....way to lead.

Clean up our acts
The solution for the first problem is to clean up our acts. We need to start following and enforcing policies in our channel, if for no other reason than to improve the image of our channel. When I was forwarded into the Halopedia channel, I tried to explain that a SWF Operator wouldn’t do this. They wouldn’t hear it because in our channel we’re, according to them, a bunch of immature twelve year olds who abuse Op powers. Guess what, guys: they’re exactly right. When vandals start being held in higher regard than SWF Ops and members, it’s time to clean up the act.

Removal of non-Admin Ops
How do we prevent future vandalism? The hard answer is that it will never be fully preventable, but we can take steps to ensure that it’s left to a minimum. A drastic change is needed, and that change right now is the removal of all non-SWF admin operators. That means, the following people (and bot) need their Op statuses removed:


 * Jedi Master 76 - I know JM would never do this, but out of fairness if we’re going to remove some we need to remove all.
 * Jedimca0 - completely useless. He’s not active in the channel at all. He has no business having Op powers. Not only that, but he’s an administrator on Darthipedia. We might as well just as handed them the keys to the kingdom. Forgive my bias, but we can’t trust Darthipedian administrators with Op powers. It was either supergeeky1 or Madclaw (can’t remember which) who said that they wouldn’t trust themselves with Op powers. What does that tell you? A lot.
 * Kathkira - like JM, I know she wouldn’t do this. Regardless, she doesn’t even use Op powers. It’s unnecessary, and out of fairness this has to go too.
 * Whopper - same as JM.
 * Wallybot, Darth tom’s IRC bot - this bot has no business being an Op (assuming it is an Op, I can’t remember right now, so if it’s not a bot then disregard this). All it’s really good for is trolling (you heard me) and linking to articles on wiki’s. It doesn’t need Op powers to do that.

The only bot that should NOT be removed is “whop”, Whopper’s bot. I say this because it has very important anti-spamming, anti-flooding and counter-vandalism functions that need to be utilized if a situation arises.

Many of you are probably having a “wtf” moment right now, but non-administrators really don’t need these powers. There is also the potential for further abuse from them (no offense) and, in the end, their Op powers are unnecessary because they’re never used anyway. I don’t exactly think that this is going to be met with any rousing support, at least not immediately, but I think you can understand the need to remove potential abuse and restrict power, if only for the time being, like this to Star Wars Fanon administrators.

Removal of aforementioned powers
NOTE: If you have skipped to this section without reading the other sections because the title intrigued you, go back to the beginning and start reading. You need to see everything before this before coming here.


 * NOTE: The previous voting sections were too narrow-minded for this humble Wookieepedian, who felt they needed to be addressed with individual votes. So he re-arranged the voting sections and added new options.
 * You heard me. (This note blamed on Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 07:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC))

So, please vote in here to remove Op powers from JM76, Jedimca0, Kathkira, Whopper and Wallbot (assuming Wally has powers). This vote will last from two weeks (until December 19th).


 * EDIT by someone else who did not write this thread originally: Vote for one of the blanket options, or go a la carte and vote on each individual user. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 07:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Remove all (4)

 * 1) As the proposer. - Brandon Rhea (talk) (contribs) 02:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) I rarely go on IRC, but now knowing recent events through the above information, absolute support.  Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 03:17, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) The utter uselessness of these only makes it fair to kill all those op powers. --Victortalk 04:25, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) Full support. &mdash;  JM ' 76 ' Ask Archives [[Image:Sabersmilyjm76.jpg|18px]] 06:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) Whopper is not on the IRC! He is not for filling his duties! :p (Sarcasm). Yes, I agree. It’s partly my fault; I created that forum for ops. --Arav the Undersith  (Contact Me ) (My contributions ) 06:39, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) &mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 14:21, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Jedi Master 76 (4/0/0)

 * Keep


 * 1) This is pretty obvious to me. Who was the one who fixed all this mess anyway? JM76. Guess who was an administrator? JM76. Guess who has enough IRC knowledge to actually use ops effectively? JM76. I just can't understand how leaving him with ops is "utterly useless" considering he's used them with excellent discernment pretty much the whole time I've ever been in IRC. I don't see op abuse from him at all.
 * 2) --[[Image:Darth tom sig.png|100px]] (talk) <font color="#000001">(contributions) 11:34, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) --<font color=#00416A>Arav the Undersith <font color=Blue>(<font color=#C3B091>Contact Me ) <font color=#00416A>(<font color=#C3B091>My contributions ) 11:53, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) - Solus (Bird of Prey)  17:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) &mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 18:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Remove


 * 1) All non-admin operators should step down.&mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 14:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) *That's an incredibly narrow minded and ignorant vote considering that Jedimca0 and Whopper are far better operators than any of our admins. Jedimca0 stopped a troll attack the other week that both Wayne and I couldn't stop, whilst Whopper's anti-troll methods have been brilliant. Would you allow trolls to ramp around our channel just so you could have your stance that all operators should be admins? --[[Image:Darth tom sig.png|100px]] <font color="#000001">(talk) <font color="#000001">(contributions) 15:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Neutral


 * 1) You never know. -- Joe Butler (Obi Maul12)  (Chow) 16:03, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Jedimca0

 * Keep


 * 1) We had a vandal attack the other day. None of our ops were able to deal with it; he fixed this. --[[Image:Darth tom sig.png|100px]] <font color="#000001">(talk) <font color="#000001">(contributions) 11:34, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) - Solus (Bird of Prey)  17:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) &mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 18:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Remove


 * 1) All non-admin operators should step down.&mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 14:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Neutral

I do not want to get into a debate over this, so I'll comment here. When I was online, I remember that SuperGeeky1 was online and asked for ops. I did not give them to him, though when I left to go to work, Jedimca0 was not online at the time. When I left to go to work, I gave ops to Geeky. It may be safe to say that Geeky impersonated Jedimca0 by using these op powers. Another cause being that Geeky may have given op powers to someone else. If this is found to be true, and Geeky was the cause, I apologize for my actions. And I will accept any punishment placed upon me. I did not realize that he would do such a stupid stunt as impersonation and channel redirection.--  CurrentBigThing  ( Speak ) 14:02, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) There's been craploads of bias thrown in, so I say it could be anyone. This vote may change, however. -- Joe Butler (Obi Maul12)  (Chow) 16:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Kathkira (2/1/0)

 * Keep


 * 1) Once again, a case of a responsible user who has ops, knows how to use ops, and won't abuse ops. Why on earth would this wiki wish to remove that? There aren't enough admins to effectively patrol #swfanon&mdash;I would know. I spend more time in that channel than I do on this website, and anyone who argues with me on that can go straight . . . never mind. And even fewer of those admins who are on IRC don't really have an effective understanding of IRC powahs.  Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 07:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) --[[Image:Darth tom sig.png|100px]] <font color="#000001">(talk) <font color="#000001">(contributions) 11:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) --<font color=#00416A>Arav the Undersith <font color=Blue>(<font color=#C3B091>Contact Me ) <font color=#00416A>(<font color=#C3B091>My contributions ) 11:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) - Solus (Bird of Prey)  17:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) &mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 18:11, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Remove


 * 1) All non-admin operators should step down.&mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 15:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Neutral


 * 1) -- Joe Butler (Obi Maul12)  (Chow) 16:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Whopper (2/0/1)

 * Keep


 * 1) When he is online, he is good. --<font color=#00416A>Arav the Undersith <font color=Blue>(<font color=#C3B091>Contact Me ) <font color=#00416A>(<font color=#C3B091>My contributions ) 11:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) Our best op. No argument about it. --[[Image:Darth tom sig.png|100px]] <font color="#000001">(talk) <font color="#000001">(contributions) 15:12, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) &mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 18:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Remove


 * 1) All non-admin operators should step down.&mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 15:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Neutral


 * 1) Meh. I can't see him abusing this, but I also haven't seen him online much. Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 07:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) You never know. -- Joe Butler (Obi Maul12)  (Chow) 16:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Final thoughts
Please don’t accuse me of saying I think everyone else is doing this and I’m guilty. I’m not saying that. I partake in this crap too. I go by the name Achmed, say I’m a dead Muslim terrorist and threaten to kill all the infidels in the channel when things don’t go my way. Clearly I’m not going to be doing that anymore. To end this, let me just say that I think we need to do all of the above to help improve the quality and security of our channel. I rest my cae.

Tl;dr version of this entire thread: stop dicking around in #swfanon or there will be consequences, aka. the legitimate upholding of our IRC policies.

Thank you for taking the time to read what I have to say. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) <font color="#1A2BBB">(contribs) 02:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Problems
Please use this as a discussion area for the problem section. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) <font color="#1A2BBB">(contribs) 02:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Brandon said this earlier, but I want to bring up the kicking thing again. Awhile back, when I came back to SWFanon, I joined the IRC to meet with a few people who I hadn't seen, well, heard, from in a while. Unexpectedly, I was kicked because I disagreed with a few people's thinking. The Ops said that they didn't need a reason to kick me from the channel. I said that they did need a reason. So I hope that everyone who goes on IRC knows that the Ops do need a reason to kick you. Otherwise, they are mistreating you and abusing their powers.&mdash;Darthtyler (Talk) 14:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Solutions
Please use this as a discussion area for the solutions section. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) <font color="#1A2BBB">(contribs) 02:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

General discussion
Please use this as a general discussion area for the whole thread. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) <font color="#1A2BBB">(contribs) 03:01, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I wrestled long and hard before getting involved with this thread. One, I've long thought that #swfanon needed a more logical and organized structure of IRC. However, I disagree with points raised in this thread on numerous occasions, and seeing that I felt the consequences of saying nothing were to pass a policy that could majorly impact #swfanon, I decided to speak up. Let me start by saying I am no angel in IRC. There's a lot of clowning around that occurs (or occurred) in that channel, and let's be honest, a lot of it is for that shadowy concept called "lulz." I don't deny that, nor do I intend to make excuses&mdash;I've not generally impersonated people or kicked people, but I'm less civil there than I am here. That's because 1) IRC conversations are not displayed for all to see (in general), 2) are real time, allowing for lighter statements, and 3)there aren't that many people in #swfanon anyway, 4) nobody should really take everything said on IRC seriously anyway. Which brings me to my next point. I rearranged and revamped the ops voting sections. The basic reason for this is that there are not enough active administrators in the channel IMO who have any grasp of how to properly use ops, even if they all had it. A policy of only mods have permanent ops works quite well in #wookieepedia, where there's anywhere from 3-12 admins in the channel at any given time and at least one or two of them actually know how to use IRC well. Having only admins have ops in #swfanon will lead to long periods of time when no ops are present to deal with trolls, spammers, and dare I say it, idiots. Also, it's pretty obvious to me at least that enforcement of all the IRC policies at every waking moment is well . . . a bluff. One, the administration that participates in IRC has not been willing to enforce said policies consistently, and two, there aren't enough people there to enforce it anyway. So, I recommend that anyone ever offended by something said in IRC take a deep breath, relax, and realize it's a bit more looser than the wiki by nature. Without draconian steps, that's not changing. Allow the room to have a sense of humour while protecting it from "invasions." I think there's a more reasonable solution here, and while I applaud the spirit and many of the aims of this thread, my opinion on the matter is that it's a little overreactionary. I'd be in favor of a little less rhetoric, emotion, and conspiracy theories and a little more reason.  Atarumaster88  [[Image:Jedi_Order.svg|20px]] ( Talk page ) 08:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. -- Joe Butler (Obi Maul12)  (Chow) 16:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Suspect: Found
As confirmed by Freenode, Jedimca0 was the one that directed the #swfanon channel. To quote the channel (that one of the permanent Ops, AKA THE THING I'M NOT, will STILL have to fix), "*!*@*!@halopedia set by Jedimca0|Busy". I believe this calls for an immediate removal of his Op rights, and I will also be banning him for one week for vandalism. This also strengthens my argument that all non-Admins need to be removed of their Op powers. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) <font color="#1A2BBB">(contribs) 04:34, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

"Everyone is taken this too seriously. We can't assign stereotypes to Darthipedian editors. Anyway, Jedimca0 is an exceptional user that I would trust with our IRC stuff."

- Captain Oblivious

"He's assured me he's not going to mess around with it, and I would suspect Jedimca0 least of many Darthipedians, and would remain serious in the spirit of Star Wars Fanon."

- Captain Britain

"I don't trust Darthipedians with op powers in our channel, considering there is a high possibility ridiculous jokes and alterations could be made."

- My accurate warning


 * I warned you all. But noooo. --Victortalk 04:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I voted neutral. Give me some credit. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) <font color="#1A2BBB">(contribs) 04:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I blame the local troll. --Victortalk 04:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This wasn't the real Jedimca0.
 * 1) Jedi uses ChatZilla; this ban was set by a Mibbit user.
 * 2) This person wasn't signed in as Jedi, nor did they have his cloak.
 * 3) This person was up at a time Jedi would obviously have been in bed at, especially considering I was there when he closed down for the night.
 * 4) This ban was set by someone using the nickname 'Jedimca0|Busy'. I could go on the IRC now under the nick 'Brandon_Rhea' and ban CBT. Guess who it'd say banned CBT? 'Brandon_Rhea'. Does that mean Bac did it? No.
 * 5) If you want a longer list of reasons why this wasn't Jedi, and why Bac seems to be mistaken, please request an e-mail from myself or Jedi, when he gets round to sending it. --[[Image:Darth tom sig.png|100px]] <font color="#000001">(talk) <font color="#000001">(contributions) 15:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Problem solved
Thanks to JM76, the problem has been solved. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) <font color="#1A2BBB">(contribs) 06:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Right on JM76. --Victortalk 06:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Jedimca0 has also now been blocked from our channel for two weeks, pending the outcome of the Op removal discussion above. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) <font color="#1A2BBB">(contribs) 06:12, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed, so he may argue his case and until we can actually prove it was or wasn't Jedimca0. --[[Image:Darth tom sig.png|100px]] <font color="#000001">(talk) <font color="#000001">(contributions) 15:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Probable impersonation
It seems likely that it was not in fact Jedimca0 who set the forward ban to #halopedia, but an impersonator. Jedimca0 uses ChatZilla, which I'm sure other #swfanon regulars can confirm. I'm sure you are also aware that he is located in the Netherlands. The user who set the ban was connected via Mibbit and the IP (71.200.165.110) originates from the United States.

It seems the most likely scenario here is that a troll impersonating Jedimca0 joined the channel, and was given ops by someone mistaking the troll for the real deal.

After receiving advice from users in #freenode (including myself), Jedimca0 has enabled nick protection on his account and has obtained an unaffiliated cloak. This will readily identify impersonation in the future.

In the interests of assuming good faith, I ask you to reconsider any punitive action taken against Jedimca0. Thank you. -- Manticore 14:10, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Manticore has a point. Jedi and CBT have evidence it wasn't Jedi. I'll unban him now and allow him to present this evidence to us here. --[[Image:Darth tom sig.png|100px]] <font color="#000001">(talk) <font color="#000001">(contributions) 14:11, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Manticore has provided most of the evidence we were able to find. But, I would like to add a few thing:
 * The time stamp on the IRC block "6 december 2008 0:51:07" is from after I logged out and went to sleep.
 * what is also interesting is that who ever messed with the channel was using mibbit, I never use mibbit (in fact, I hate mibbit), I only use Chatzilla.
 * Finally, I would like to state that I am in fact fairly active in the channel. I talk to multiple people in there every day. I have also helped other admins and channel ops with placing blocks and other technical things since before I even got ops. The reason why Darth tom nominated me for operator status was because I'm familiar with most of the commands on IRC. I was given ops to support the SW Fanon admins, and this is what I have been doing. I have never given ops to anyone other then SWFanon admins, when other people ask me to op them I just ignore them. After this event I have taken steps to assure people can't impersonate me in the future, like Maticore said, I have enabled nick protection on my account (which will automatically kick anyone using my nick if they don't identify with the correct password within 30 seconds after joining) and I have obtained an unaffiliated cloak, which will help other channel ops identify me and help prevent impersonators from obtaining ops in the channel. --Jedimca0(Do or Do Not, There is No Try) 15:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Evidence
<DT|afk>	Did you impersonate Jedimca0 or not last night? <SG1|Hereish>	Yeah. <SG1|Hereish>	I think you already knew that. <DT|afk>	Thanks, that's all I need to kniw. <DT|afk>	*know <SG1|Hereish>	I've stated many of times that you should *never* give me ops in #swfanon and the ops made a goddamn game out of it. <DT|afk>	Can I post this conversation on the Wiki, please? <SG1|Hereish>	If you wish. This is evidence that Jedimca0 did nothing. No point debating whether or not he's guilty or not; he obviously isn't. On behalf of Star Wars Fanon, I'd like to apologize to Jedimca0 for the false accusations and thank SG1 for his confession. -- <font color="#000001">(talk) <font color="#000001">(contributions) 18:01, 6 December 2008 (UTC)