Forum talk:Sockpuppetry policy revision

Support

 * 1) As proposer. -- Michaeldsuarez [[Image:Sabersmilygreend.jpg|20px]] ( Talk ) ( Deeds ) 20:23, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) *Definitely. --  Joe Butler (Obi Maul12)  (Chow) 20:27, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) He did something he didn't realize was wrong, he should just get a warning and move on.-- Nightmare975 21:01, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 4) He would never do something wrong if he knew it could get him banned. I have been helping this user a lot and he to me, he is new. He loves this place and enjoys writing articles. I will assume good faith that he had not read or known the Sockpuppet policy. He just wanted to change his name. --Arav the Undersith (Contact Me ) (My contributions ) 22:53, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 5) Yeah, I guess we can unblock him. -- Knowledge the Article Writer talk 02:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) Of course. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 02:27, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 7) Yah! Now someone understands! Jonn1234 (Talk) 02:53, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 8) Please do.--Mattkenn3 (Talk) 03:03, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 9) Yepp.   Wing   msg 15:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 10) --Victortalk 06:38, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Neutral

 * 1) I'm staying out of this one. -MPK (MPK's Talk Page)|undefined 01:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) I've taken the Sockpuppet policy as it reads, to the very letter, and it reads that only a bot can escape from this rule. As such, the 'new account' doesn't 'escape' these clauses. He counts as a sockpuppet. My decision was to do this, as I believe that the policy says what the policy means. This is also exactly the same as when Victor Dorantes banned Anti-Formal, the 'new' Darth rayze. Although this had no bearing upon my decision, it's something that needed to be pointed out. I took the policy by the letter, and, as such, he remains banned. --[[Image:Darthtomsig.png|163px]] (talk) (contributions) 20:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) *Obviously not. As I've said below, the policy is explicitely said to be a the creation of an alternative account to make it look like another user, a vandal, or user trying to use both accounts at the same time. This is not related to a user switching to another account at all. Also, simply because another administrator did something doesn't make it right. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 03:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 3) For now. &mdash;  JM ' 76 ' Ask Archives [[Image:Sabersmilyjm76.jpg|18px]] 21:59, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, that first line is flawed, but it doesn't change what the rest of it says. The policy clearly says "Due to extreme abuse by some people in the past, sockpuppetry on this wiki is forbidden". Before you say "well he didn't know he was being a sockpuppet", the policy does say: "Sockpuppets can be created by vandals to evade blocks or legitimate users to create an extra facet of interest in the community." I'd classify this under that second bolded one. Not only that, but there are exceptions to the policy listed in exceptions policy, and "I want to create a new name" isn't one of them. You can use the Title template to change what your user page title says, you can create a new signature so long as it somehow still contains at least part of your most common name, etc. Because of all this, I oppose the unblocking. Do we need a new Sockpuppet policy? Yes, we do. I have yet to read your proposed policy, Michael, so I don't yet know if yours is the right course. - Brandon Rhea (talk) (contribs) 01:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) *Not only that, but there are exceptions to the policy listed in exceptions policy, and "I want to create a new name" isn't one of them. The policy doesn't say anything whatsoever about a user creating a new account, so therefore there's no reason to block a user for such. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 02:59, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments
I just want to point out something Arav said: "I will assume good faith that he had not read or known the Sockpuppet policy". No offense, but that's just too bad. Every time a new user registers here, we slap a giant template on their user page that essentially says OMG READ OUR POLICIES OR BE BANNED KTHXBYE. There's not really an excuse for not reading policies. - Brandon Rhea (talk) (contribs) 01:56, 14 September 2008 (UTC) We're not here to test people. Users and administrators can help them if they have questions, but the downside to them not reading policies is also that Administrators are here to catch them and ban them when they do screw up. That's just the way it works. - Brandon Rhea (talk) (contribs) 02:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * True. Most users don't even read em'. Mabey there should be a sort of test questions that have to be answered that we ask new users. I know that would be a big task but it might help. Thats just my opinion. --<font color=#00416A>Arav the Undersith <font color=Blue>(<font color=#C3B091>Contact Me ) <font color=#00416A>(<font color=#C3B091>My contributions ) 02:03, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

As I said on my talk page, the sockpuppet policy says nothing of the sort. Per the policy, sockpuppetry is the creation of an alternative account to make it look like another user. Sockpuppets can be created by vandals to evade blocks or legitimate users to create an extra facet of interest in the community. It says nothing of users switching accounts being considered sockpuppets. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 02:26, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * This is aimed to Tom, Drewton and MSD: Either block him for 3 days or not. Stop unbaning him and baning him, thanks. --<font color=#00416A>Arav the Undersith <font color=Blue>(<font color=#C3B091>Contact Me ) <font color=#00416A>(<font color=#C3B091>My contributions ) 10:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Arav. You guys aren't going very far in the interest of Administrative solidarity. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk) <font color="#1A2BBB">(contribs) 11:20, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Like I said on my talk page, I was unaware that there was a discussion going on when I unblocked him. I wouldn't have if I'd known that there was. Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 14:39, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This forum was made after the blocking war between me and Darth tom. We both agree that this forum was the proper way to settle the disagrreement. I hope to coooperate with him again soon. I don't want silly disagreements tearing the administration of the site apart; that's not why we both became administrators. -- Michaeldsuarez [[Image:Sabersmilygreend.jpg|20px]] ( Talk ) ( Deeds ) 19:51, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Um, when can he be unbanned? After 3 days is up or what? There is large support. I don't think there would be any more large changes in oppose and support anytime soon. I suggest that he be unbanned now by a Admin. --<font color=#00416A>Arav the Undersith <font color=Blue>(<font color=#C3B091>Contact Me ) <font color=#00416A>(<font color=#C3B091>My contributions ) 08:50, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Otherwise we might be deciding by the time his ban has expired... Drewton  [[Image:Era-old.png|20px]] ( Drewton's Holocron ) 12:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)