Forum:CT:Proposal to enable article comments

This CT is a proposal to enable the article comments feature here on Star Wars Fanon, which many people here have been expecting since I have reached out to a number of you about this over the last few weeks in order to gauge support for this proposal.

Article comments are a comment box and a discussion area at the bottom of articles. The feature offers a more intuitive way of commenting on articles. My hope with the enabling of this feature, if this CT passes, is that more readers will be engaged by having a clear place with which to comment on an article, even if it’s as simple as “I love this story!” That will go a long way to improving our community situation, since it will show authors that people are, in fact, paying attention to their work. After all, isn't that what an author wants?

What do I mean by intuitive? Quite simply, article comments are easier than article talk pages for leaving a discussion. Let me give you a rundown of the steps it takes to leave a message on an article talk page vs. article comments:


 * Talk page: 1) Know what a talk page is (remember that most people who come to SWFanon, this is their first wiki experience). 2) Click “Talk.” 3) Click “Leave message” or “Edit.” 4) Enter a subject header. 5) Write your message. 6) Sign your message. 7) Click “Publish.”
 * Article comments: 1) Write your comment in the clearly-visible box. 2) Click Post comment.

That’s seven steps vs. two. There is no reason not to have an easier process. “This isn’t how wikis were designed” is not an argument, it’s an observation of how something was made over 10 years ago. The rest of the Internet uses an interface similar to article comments. Let’s join them. Websites either evolve or they die. Right now, we’re dying.

But I want to use talk pages!

That’s fair enough, and I want you to be able to continue using them if that is what you are most comfortable with. Because of that, we will be using CSS to re-add the talk page link to both skins (Monobook and Wikia). Article comments doesn’t get rid of talk pages, it just removes the link from pages&mdash;but the talk pages are still there. This CSS code will re-add the talk page link in Monobook and Wikia, so you will be able to use article comments, talk pages, both, neither, or one or the other. This lets you do whatever you want. It offers choice.

If you want to see how article comments work, check out the Michael Lars page on the Alternative Saga Wiki and leave a comment. It doesn’t have to be on-topic, I can always delete it later. Just feel free to use it as a test page for comments.

This CT will last for one week, until October 15, 2012, unless more or less time is required. All relevant matters of the voting policy apply. Please be civil.

Support (6)

 * 1) As the proposer. - Brandon Rhea (talk) 20:07, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) I think SWF is ready for this, and do hope it will allow users to better help each other.  Savage  1138  20:19, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) * There really is not a valid excuse to be against this since detractors can still use the traditional talk page. It will also foster more interaction among the newer users, I think .- I'm the Chosen One  21:35, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) Something, something, something dark side. Something, something, something complete. Squishy Vic talk 22:38, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) Sounds like a good idea. And the talk pages remain so awards can still be added there.-- Josh Bender щ(ﾟДﾟщ) 23:10, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) Yeah I agree with Joshbender, it sounds like a decent change and as I have discovered in the past, sometimes its a real bother to add comments on talk pages just because of the long process. IG-44Private Comm channel  23:56, October 8, 2012 (UTC)
 * 7) Sounds good to me. -- JM76 03:12, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose (3)

 * 1) No. Simply put; no.  Why?  Because, article comments will clutter up the articles.  And those articles that are targets for vandalism would be a freakin' mess.  And quite frankly, I don't want comments on my articles.  This is not Facebook, plain and simple.  Article comments will look hideous.  After that, you'll be pining for the god-awful message wall, to which I am vehemently opposed.  Are you trying to drive me away?  If you are, you're certainly on the right track. Trak Nar Ramble on 03:55, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) Per Trak Nar in every way and more. C'mon Brandon, we've discussed this ad nauseum. If we absolutely had to add a commenting ability, I have suggested using phpBB threads as a way to "enhance" talk pages. This is just another retarded ploy by Wikia to be "more like Facebook" which, ironically, isn't doing too well on the stock market. 04:23, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) Honestly, I withheld from voting, as I usually do, until I heard arguments from both sides, I think it is usually the best way to go about things. I try to see both sides of the story. Before hearing the opposing arguments, I honestly was going to vote for the whole comments section thing - people tend to not want to use talk pages. That's just how it is. However, it appears that if this goes through it will be forced on everyone, whether they want to or not. People should have the choice whether they want comments or not - even YouTube allows that, and YouTube commenters are the scum of the earth :p. It's honestly not worth annoying people so much over something that really doesn't matter in the long run - if I want a lot of comments on something I'll make a blog post. It's worked for TCO so far just fine. That way the articles remain clean and free of n00bs and I can still get all the comments and critiques I want. True, having a comments section would allow easier access to comments and critiques, but in the end it's just not worth what it will do and what it might lead to. Yeah, Bac, I said in the email I'd vote for this, but given every argument, I just can't in good faith. I didn't lie on purpose, I genuinely meant to vote for, but I waited to see both sides. That's what I do. So here I am, voting in good conscience for the choice I believe is best for everyone. If someone is on SWF, they've probably left a message before in their tenure, I'm sure they can manage. We're a weird little encyclopedia, but we're an encyclopedia. We want to look professional and clean, well, as clean as possible. If people want to get regular comments, people will post their stuff or links to their stuff on regular fanfic message boards. It's not too much work, and it can be easily done by anyone. Plus, it could get traffic from other sites on which the stuff is linked. So yeah. - Solus          Talk to the Hand  04:56, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
In all seriousness article comments actually work in Wikia's mobile site for say an iPhone, which is a huge plus. Right now I had to visit the full site just to edit this page from my device, so the ability to comment on the much nicer mobile interface is "good stuff" (as Brandon would say). Squishy Vic talk 22:40, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

You mentioned that the article comments remove the link to the talk pages in the article header by default, Brandon. However, on the page about Michael Lars, I still see the link (in Monobook). Did you purposely design it that way, or is that due to my CSS preferences? JM76 03:12, October 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Interesting. I could've sworn it removed it there too. Oh well, so much the better.The CSS will therefore re-add it to only the default skin. - Brandon Rhea (talk)  03:43, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

Might I propose a third option, as this seems like a "too bad, you're stuck with something you hate, ha-ha-ha" thing. Could the comments be optional for articles? Say, if you don't want such things cluttering up your mainspace, could the comments be disabled? I, for one, don't want comments on my user page. I'll just be relocating them to the talk page and deleting the comments, so why not have the option to enable/disable comments for people who just freakin' don't want the stupid things? That would be the ONLY thing that would even get me to consider changing my mind. Trak Nar Ramble on 04:11, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * The only way you can do that is via personal CSS. There is no built-in disable option for a user-by-user basis. - Brandon Rhea (talk)  04:15, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Then I'll be relocating comments until the end of time, and deleting comments constantly. That will become my main contribution if this goes through; relocating comments and deleting them.  I'd rather it not come to such pointless busy work. Trak Nar</b> Ramble on 04:18, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * Same here. In fact, if that becomes too big a hassle, then I will remove all of my articles&mdash;which includes all of my stories&mdash;from Star Wars Fanon. 04:26, October 9, 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't do this. I can't vote for a side with what is at stake here.- I'm the Chosen One  04:58, October 9, 2012 (UTC)

@All -- I can very easily provide you with a CSS code if you don't want to use this. I will even add it to your CSS for you if adding it feels like a hassle. This is not a complicated issue. This is an intuitive commenting system that allows for greater reader and editor engagement. I understand if you don't want to use it&mdash;I'm willing to help you not use it if that's what you want. But, to deny everyone the ability to use it because you don't want to isn't right to me. I started this CT with a compromise (re-adding the talk page link), and I'm willing to go further to help individual users who do not want to see comments. - <font color="#1A2BBB">Brandon Rhea <font color="#1A2BBB">(talk)  05:04, October 9, 2012 (UTC)