User talk:VDO



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TFU review
Hi, Vic. I saw your TFU review on MPK's talk page and would like to discussion some of your points.

'''So first off, why the hell would Vader pick this kid up? His duty was to kill all Jedi – hence the Great Jedi Purge – not become friends with the son of two other Jedi.''' Galen wasn't a Jedi at the time, and possibly not even old enough to remember his father (or so we're led to believe).
 * Still doesn't answer the question.

I mean he had to know the kid would eventually realize, from the goodness of his heart (cliché, I know), that what the Empire and Vader were doing were wrong. Not necessarily. Maul didn't, and he was trained in a similar way. The NEGTTF states that he was Palpatine's "secret apprentice" while Plagueis was still alive.
 * Fair enough.

Another thing of how this already does not fit canon is the fact that Starkiller (as he is dubbed) is never even mentioned in the films. I agree, it is a bit strange, but they can't help that. Hopefully they'll give him a mention in the next special edition.
 * Yeah, like I said, this is what happens when you create major plots thirty years after the original plot and have no way to fit it in. I really hope they don't anything about this at all.

'''Luke Skywalker, son of Vader, is the one who was supposed to be taken in by Vader as his apprentice. Vader knew Luke was the only one who had the power to help him overthrow Emperor Palpatine, making Vader’s struggle and the fact that Luke is his son much more meaningful.''' The difference was that Luke was the one Vader wanted to rule the galaxy with. Starkiller was only a tool.
 * Yeah, but that doesn't mean the plot is meaningless and has no inspiration behind it.

'''There is no meaning behind it, no special feeling, no good reason. Why would Vader defy the Emperor like this and try to keep it secret? He knows you can’t hide anything from the Emperor. The dude’s one of the greatest Sith Lords ever.''' At the end of the game, it sounded like Vader and Palpatine had been plotting the whole thing from the beginning together, and the "by taking this boy as your apprentice, you have betrayed me, blablabla" was simply an act. Or Vader had only wanted to use Galen to overthrow Palpatine and then kill him after that so he would never be betrayed.
 * Yeah I know, I mentioned that later in my review somewhere. This is just criticizing that point of the story at the time of playing, before realizing it was all a plot.

'''Why couldn’t Vader just train Marek as a Dark Jedi, and, as time went on, as an Inquisitor? I mean canon has established there are several dozen other Inquisitors running around, such as Jerec (main villain from Dark Forces II) that are pretty powerful. Why couldn’t Marek just be another one of those guys?''' He was a Dark Jedi. The Rule of Two didn't allow him to be a Sith. And being an Inquisitor would be...boring. This is a game.
 * So? You can't fight as an Inquisitor? Would it really make a difference (gameplay wise) if he was an Inquisitor or not? Story wise, it would've. At least Vader could've gotten away with making him his "apprentice" by saying he was just another Inquisitor.

'''Did Vader seriously think he could overthrow the Emperor? It’s a big joke to me.''' Not he alone, no, but with their combined strength they could easily. Or, as I said above, he never was planning to use him to overthrow the Emperor.
 * Only because the game made Marek so ridiculously powerful.

'''We have seen through other levels of canon (Expanded Universe) and the films that no Jedi could defeat Darth Vader. Not the Dark Woman, not eight Jedi at once at the Conclave of Kessel, and not Obi-Wan Kenobi on the Death Star.''' It's still possible, especially considering that Galen was the child of two Jedi. Vader didn't really defeat Obi-Wan; Obi-Wan sacrificed himself, and he likely would have been much more powerful when he was younger.
 * Right on Obi-Wan, but I doubt he would've defeated Vader anyway. Otherwise, he could've just held him off some more. And of course he lost power in his exile, but doesn't mean he was weak stuff. And like I said, I don't buy it. I don't like being introduced to this new Mary Sue and having his story forced into C-Canon and that he can defeat Vader. The EU is making Vader out to be a wimp. The only good EU story where Vader is defeated and I find it a great story is where he fights the doppleganger of Darth Maul and his hate for himself is powerful enough to defeat the doppleganger, after being beaten up badly.

'''So of course, Vader throws good old Marek out the transparisteel window INTO SPACE. Yet, the scumbag survives because Vader saved him and wanted him alive. Gee, surprise! If people can’t say that surviving being thrown into space, where one would literally implode, is ridiculous an absolutely the trait of a Mary Sue, then you are in denial or simply like Mary Sues. That’s just my take. Making him uber-powerful? Sure. Making him invincible? Noooo. That’s just ridiculous.''' Remember, this is Star Wars, where ships can land on asteroids. The idea also isn't entirely new; the window of the bridge of the Invisible Hand was shattered for a few seconds.
 * Right, but the organic beings didn't go flying out. They weren't thrown out the window with the Force and literally into space. This is different. Marek actually was in space, and as we all should've learned in school, no oxygen whatsoever equals death for us, and our organs would explode, causing us as a whole to implode.

Of course, Kota does nothing while Marek does all the work himself, and the defeats Vader. He wasn't exactly able to. He was blind and had lost his connection to the Force.
 * I know - I find it humorous because he went in there for no reason other than to be a plot device for Palpatine to fatally wound Marek.

Luke is the only one with such a powerful connection to the Force and is therefore the only one worthy of such an accomplishment, in my opinion. When Luke defeated Vader in ROTJ, he wasn't even near his full potential and had no real training from anyone except Yoda, which only lasted for a few days, whereas Vader, the Chosen One, trained him for nearly two decades to use the Force without limits. Vader was also defeated in .
 * Exactly - only Luke is so powerful. Not Marek.

'''Marek is able to summon all his power and explode, or something, to distract Palpatine enough for his rebels to escape. So, two things: One, as I’ve said before, this isn’t Dragon Ball Z. Force-users shouldn’t just be able to summon all their energy and blow themselves up. It just doesn’t work that way. In Dragon Ball, we know they can use energy or “ki” to attack. In Star Wars, the equivalent of ki is the Force, but to a much less energy-style effect. No one shoots beams of power from their hands, mouth, or eyes in Star Wars because no one can. So how Marek can commit suicide by blowing himself up is beyond me.''' If there weren't ridiculous Force powers in this game, this wouldn't be The Force Unleashed. He completely unleashed all of his Force energy, an attack so powerful that it killed him. Sidious and even a fatally-injured Vader proved to be more powerful by surviving. Also, did Galen truly defeat Palpatine, or was it an act to see what he would do? Mace Windu appeared to defeat him in ROTS.
 * On your last point, that could work. However, just because the game was made out to exaggerate the Force, doesn't make it plausible. To me, it's ridiculous and it's not something I could ever believe would happen in the Star Wars universe I have so long followed. I mean I find some of The Clone Wars animated series ridiculous, in terms of super hi jumps Windu was making or his super kung fu he used on the super battle droids. My point is that even if the powers were meant to be exaggerated or "unleashed" as in this game or the show, it doesn't make it "awesome!" or "believable!" for me.

'''I mean sure, Rebels have escaped from Imperials before as seen in the films, but this is Palpatine we’re talking about. He should have the baddest, strongest, largest fleet of stormies in the whole Imperial lot.''' From ROTJ: "My best troops await them." And they get defeated by the Care Bears  Drewton   ( Drewton's Holocron ) 21:29, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Touché! :P --Victor [[Image:Vic sig logo.png|15px]] talk 21:53, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I do agree that Starkiller's apprenticeship was pointless if he was only meant to route out the rebels. That's something Vader could have done himself, not train a boy 16 years to do. However, I also think that Vader could have only decided that during the 6-month period that Starkiller was being healed in. The only reason I would doubt that is Vader telling Galen he lied from the beginning. Still, even if so, the plot wasn't meaningless, as Starkiller was the one who inspired the creation of the Rebel Alliance. Without him, there may never have been one, and the Senators who started it may have died. Games aren't mean to have good stories, only to be fun, and I thought it succeeded in both of those very well. Look at Jedi Academy. That had great reviews and was extremely fun, but the story was terrible. I don't know much about the Inquisitors, maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't Palpatine know about him then? IMO, it would be quite easy for Obi-Wan to defeat Vader. He cut off his limbs in EP3 and Vader was only a shell of what he once was in ANH. The movies are what made Anakin a whimp. I have to agree with you that going out into space was a bit ridiculous, but again, Star Wars often doesn't follow the laws of physics. Kota was there because he was captured by the Empire, like the other Senators. Luke was much more powerful than Marek, but Marek was still possibly powerful enough to defeat Palpatine, unless if he was brilliantly acting. Reimagining the Force was the point of the game, and for me it's never been so fun to use it. Drewton  ( Drewton's Holocron ) 22:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

New Stuff
View it presently!!!!!--  CurrentBigThing  ( Speak ) 17:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Image
Vic, if it's not too much trouble, would you mind attempting to remove the arrows from this image, please? It'd do well as a character of mine from TLM. If it's too much hassle I understand, but if you could? -- (talk) (contributions) 19:21, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Bah. If you could come on AIM, please, I'll upload it somewhere else and post you the link then. --[[Image:Darth tom sig.png|100px]] (talk) (contributions) 19:37, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

RE: Thanks
You're welcome. It's okay; I needed something to do anyway. -- Michaeldsuarez  ( Talk ) ( Deeds ) 23:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

To tide you over
Just so you don't attack me next time we talk...I added some information to Part IV. Check it out. It's a new section underneath the part with Epin and his mom. :)--  CurrentBigThing  ( Speak ) 21:44, 7 October 2008 (UTC)